Single & EP Titles

The Beatles

RSG §3.2.2 If the release is without a picture sleeve, or an obvious title on the label, or there is no external evidence:

** a) Single(2-track): Use the main track title (A side, plug side, side 1, etc.) as the title for the release. If unable to discern main track title, use both titles separated by a slash.

** b) 78 (2-track): Use both track titles as the title for the release, separated by a slash.

** c) EP(more than 2 tracks): use the track title designated A1. ExampleUntitled

RSG §3.4.6. REMOVE

"If there is no track information" Under what circumstances is that applicable? Is it needed?
What's the difference between The Beatles ??

TopCats45s
What's the difference between Untitled and The Beatles ??

I would think the difference is that Led Zeppelin's name didn't appear on the sleeve, while The Beatles' did.

Cousin_Mosquito
on the sleeve

Does make sense - but that's missing.

If the cover is "blank" with no artist or track information, there is no other source of a title, or if other sources point to the release being untitled, use Untitled. Example Untitled

I never liked these guidelines using the single and EP. Because according to another guideline, not all 45s with 2 tracks are singles and not all 45s with 4 tracks are EPs. Yet that is precisely what this guideline's referring to.

I think this is the issue that came up at typoman2 and el_duro

Some propositions were made there trying to use the more "factual" format descriptions.

rdvriese
trying to use the more "factual" format descriptions

Good idea. I have added format descriptions. Does it read right?
And that forum discussion is the one I was reviewing when writing - I missed taking that part into consideration.

I think this could be potentially simplified down, but I am not yet sure how best to do that. More to think about.

TopCats45s
RSG §3.2.2.c. (new) If the release is an EP (or more than 2 tracks), without a picture sleeve, or an obvious title, or without external evidence: use the track title designated A1. Example Teen-Age Prayer

I don't know about this. If the EP has four tracks and there is no main title, I think we should list all 4. In many cases, the big track is listed as track 3, so just listing A1 is problematic. Traditionally, especially in the UK and other Commonwealth countries, the title was the four tracks. The only blowback we've had to this seems to be French s because often just did a 4-track, but, again, the hit or big tune was often track 2 or track 4, and not highlighted.

Opdiner
I don't know about this.

Would "external evidence" cover that situation? Should RSG §3.2.3 be expanded a little?

I think 3.2.3 is the answer. If an external source can be found for a title, use that; otherwise, enter the tracks. After all, the record company made the conscious marketing decision to give equal prominence to the four tracks.

Opdiner
I think 3.2.3 is the answer.

LOL, reading that it dawned on me that if we expand that, then all 3 formats (single, 78, EP) could potentially read the same and

Diognes_The_Fox
could be potentially simplified

This!!

Let's play around with that and dummy this guideline down :)

TopCats45s
LOL, reading that it dawned on me that if we expand that, then all 3 formats (single, 78, EP) could potentially read the same

That hadn't occurred to me either, but yes it could work.

And LPs - taking the Beatles example from the other main artist etc thread:

Here's a conundrum. Technically, that album is called Please Please Me (With Love Me Do And 12 Other Songs) per the guidelines (it's the most complete title). Except that it's one of the most famous albums of all time, with 840 in the MR, and it is NEVER called that in the real world. Per the band, the label, and a million books, it's just PPM. Really, here, it should be mass edited, but I've been reluctant to address it. Is that another case where external evidence should rule?

Opdiner
external evidence

PPM, dang, can I pretend you didn't bring that up?
"The Beatles" is known everywhere as "The White Album". Why not here? LOL.

TopCats45s
"The Beatles" is known everywhere as "The White Album". Why not here? LOL.

Indeed, although in that case the band call it The Beatles.

Opdiner
band call it The Beatles .... external evidence

Yeah, I know. Was being a smart alec. Yeah, I think external evidence should be taken into consideration, but everything needs to looked at as a whole. Can't just pick one line and say Aha! But how do you convey that? Frickin' impossible. And I think PPM title is PPM. Using both external AND "prominently displayed"

Okay. Definitions of "External evidence".
Can include the promotional copy, industry promotional verbiage/announcements, official picture sleeve, charting history, prominence of display on the release itself ...... ?? What??

But not "fan sites" because that is so vague. Maybe biography? It's hard because I, for example, own several really detailed discography books - Island Records and UK jazz, for example, and they are so reliable. But some fan site is really only as good as its sources. So, a site like Londonjazzcollector is just so reliable, Cvinyl almost as reliable, but the Pink Floyd site is full of errors. How to judge?

Here's a "little" problem. The vast majority in the US (with no picture sleeve), with 4 hits type releases are submitted using title from A1 track. Record-Of-The-Month Club Records to start with. So changing to say add 4 titles is a big deal.

It's the same with the French ones, although the same record will have all four in Spain or elsewhere in Europe.

Re: the fan sites. I guess there needs to be some way to say 'reputable'.

Opdiner
record will have all four

Ugh. 6 Hits On Each Record

TopCats45s
Ugh. 6 Hits On Each Record

I guess there, there’s no main track but listing all is a mess.

Opdiner
listing all is a mess

Yeah, I would not like to see that at all. And the GL has to be for all. It should be a simple one (not like artists, LOL). I'm thinking we should just go with what the majority of s have been doing already - which is toss a coin for which is A side and use A1. It's simple and easy to read.

PS thanks for your kind words in that other thread 😊

I re-did and consolidated all the duplicated phrases.

TopCats45s
'm thinking we should just go with what the majority of s have been doing already - which is toss a coin for which is A side and use A1. It's simple and easy to read.

Is this just for EPs with no sleeve?

If so, yep. I think pic sleeves should list all tracks unless there is one that is clearly defined as the main track.

TopCats45s
PS thanks for your kind words in that other thread 😊

Deserved. You are doing some deity's work here, fixing these often broken guidelines :-)

Opdiner
Is this just for EPs with no sleeve?

Yes, and again thanks :-)